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« Washington NGA | Main | Kimbell Art Museum »



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Graeme Cameron

Great analytical work as usual David. An excellent painting and before reading your findings my initial instantaneous reaction to the image was, "Utrecht School", perhaps "Jan Bijlert", or "Hendrick Bloemaert", etc. who on checking both incidently did versions of these subjects too, but of a slightly different type.

Since reading your report with the further knowledge of their history, these two very closely related versions, including the signed one, both seem most probably to derive from a "Moreelse" background, rather than having any "Spanish or Ribera" connection.

Whilst I can see why that might first have been suggested, Spanish works tend to have a "Heavier" style, palette and a certain "School Affectation" which does not seem evident in either of these.

On cursory intial assessment The Detroit version appears the superior of the two, especially in the depiction of the hands, etc. and seems possibly the original of this particular interpretation of this subject. Both seem more of a "Master" than a "Studio" standard, so this would probabably leave a determination between Jan and Paulus to be further researched.

That's a thumbnail view to perhaps assist David.

With best regards,


David Packwood

Hi Graeme,

Thanks for the detailed feedback. My initial though was Spanish/Ribera, which seems to be the way the museums are going- see update from Utrecht. Maybe my proposed iconographic assay might shed some light on the Utrecht link.

After my researches I'm not entirely persuaded by the museum's Spanish orientation. Like you I think we should be looking at the relationship between Jan and Paulus on the local level. This one will run and run....



Roberto G.

It is clear why Heraclitus painting of Chicago has been classified as Spanish or Neapolitan work (especially the colors). But seeing the Democritus of which it is pedant that responds to a typically Dutch model completely stranger to the iconography of Ribera, it is clear that if both works were painted together have to be Dutch, more, seeing iconographic coincidences with the Moreelse works.
Very good job

Roberto G.

One link with iconograpy about Democritus and Heraclitus

David Packwood

Roberto G

Many thanks for the link. I'll incorporate it into the post.

Yes, both versions have nothing to do with Ribera.I am planning to do a post on their respective iconography in the not too distant future.


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